07 Silverado lifter or spark knock

[ggmurray]

Hello everyone,

183,000 miles on the Silverado with 4.8 and dealing with a ticking on acceleration, say your at a stop light and light turns green and you take off as you increase to 2000 rpm you have bad ticking noise it shifts to the next gear and again as you reach say 2000 rpm you have ticking again and then the shift and it seems to disappear as you reach cruising speed at 55/60 Mph then at some point at 55/60 you start up a hill and you accelerate to maintain your speed and as you press the pedal the ticking returns only to disappear as you let off the gas to maintain your speed.

How this all started:

It's the standard 3000 miles and time to change the oil so a trip to Walmart for Oil and a filter. I changed the oil as normal however noticed a couple of tiny (tiny) fragments stuck to the magnetic oil plug. I wasn't alarmed... So changed the oil "Castrol GTX" and a Fram filter and figured it was case closed, mind you I had no issues at this point only time for an oil change. That afternoon I had to make a another trip to town and that's when this all the ticking started, I've had issues with Fram filter before so I bought another filter (fram again) and swapped it out but still same results.

What I've done:

Thinking it might be bad gas or something I bought a bottle of injector cleaner and poured it in with some midgrade gas to see if that would make any difference. (Really didn't notice any change)

I did have a stored code P0121 TPS out of range circuit 2 (recommended online that you clean the throttle body)
I haven't

I've listened with the hood up at idle and there is NO evident lifter ticking.

I'm reaching out now for some advice before I start pulling things apart to inspect.

Thanks in advance for any help or advice!

 

[Reprise]

I looked up your profile, and you only have a Rainier listed. What year is your Silvy?

Before tearing into things... how is the noise when the engine is first started from stone cold (like overnight)? Is it present then, but not after a long drive? If that's the case, I'd take a close look at your exhaust manifolds - because when they leak, they tick.

They leak in two ways... the bolts break, and the manifolds themselves crack. So check that out, if relevant.

If that's not it, I'd try a little more cleaning, and maybe a compression / leakdown test, before going further. Is the power down? Sounds like you drive fairly conservatively, since the trans is shifting at about 2000 or so. And that's fine.

I'm not sure if the 4.8L engines used AFM / DOD; if they did, and your engine has it, that might be a cause of the ticking. You can disable it w/o too much trouble, have it tuned out, or actually replace parts and get rid of the system outright. But if it's ticking full-time because of this, the ticking won't go away until the lifters are replaced. DOD usually engages during steady-state cruise, so this may not apply to you, either.

Finally, with 180K on the motor, you might just have a (non-DOD) lifter(s) worn (or sticking). The LS engines use hydraulic roller cams, so you have hydraulic lifters. Do they always go out? Not necessarily - my 6.0L was quiet as a mouse at idle, and I just did a cam swap at 234K. If not for that, I'd still be on the stock lifters, running fine.

Bottom line - if you get to the point where you decide to go after the physical lifters... you'll need to decide whether you want to spend the money / effort to do it (and if you can't do it yourself, it's a costly job), or just live with the noise (it could run just fine, otherwise, for a long time to come).

(on edit Just remembered something else that can tick - the fuel injectors. These are easy to check - unplug one at a time (reconnect, or the engine will stall). If the ticking goes away - you found the bad injector. Do not drive this way - this is an 'idling in your garage / driveway' test.

 

[ggmurray]

Reprise I’ll add the Silverado to my profile ASAP

 

[ggmurray]

Ok I added the 07 silv to my profile! I’ll get a pic and swap my avatar around also. Reprise, I’ll listen hood up this morning while everything is cold to see if I can hear anything ticking, I’ll check on the exhaust manifolds also but yesterday they seemed fine and really at idle everything sounds normal, it’s really throwing me for a loop! I’ve watched several videos where they tried to record the noise but to me I really can’t hear anything I thought about trying today to see if I can capture the noise. I suppose we can post a video but not sure. Hey thanks for the advice!

 

[ggmurray]

Engine 4.8L VIN C 8th Digit Opt LY2 This is the motor in the truckhttp://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...0001&campid=5338077216&icep_item=143660169966

 

[ggmurray]

Well not that motor! Wanted to post the motor info.

 

[ggmurray]

Update
No ticking on cold startup, both exhaust manifold seem to be fine nothing cracked or missing that I can see. Maybe a video I’d like to post it

 

[Mooseman]

Try to get someone to rev the engine while you listen under the hood. Really check the manifolds front and back, use a mirror if you have to. Also check the donuts. With the engine revving, if you can hear an exhaust leak, you should be able to feel it too (just be careful to not touch the manifolds).

 

[mrrsm]

Often, when the Exhaust Manifold Bolts Snap Off... the Bolt Heads and upper Shanks will remain in the Exhaust Manifold Bolt Holes ...Stuck 'Tight as Two Ticks" (...not to Pull a Pun on you here...).

What happens after that is the remains of the OTHER side still threaded into the Engine Head will begin to Rust even more... leaving behind sort of a "Fried-Chicken-Brown" Golden Patina all over the adjacent MLS S/S EM Gasket.

Here are some closeups of what to look for. If you must replace more than just a few... do them in Pairs per each Port and Don't exceed 15 Foot Pounds of Torque on the Brand New 10.9 M8 X 1.25 X 30mm Fasteners:

Use a Bright Flashlight to search around for THESE artifacts:



...and once the EM and MLS Gasket are removed THIS is what can be found underneath:



EDIT:

The "Other Shoe...Waiting to Drop..." regarding the Exhaust Manifold possibly being the source is if there is Crack propagating on or near the convergence of all the Cast Iron Down Tubes at its apex and greatest Flex Point..

That area can create a "Ticking Noise" when the fractured pieces of the Iron rub against each other during changing thermal cycles ...and when the engine wobbles around on Bad Motor Mounts. Time will Tell...

"He Who Would Pun...Would Pick A Pocket..." :>)

 

[gmcman]

Looking at your opening post, your sequence of events were: (Not talking down, just making sure I have the facts)

Normal operating engine, no noise for 183K miles.

Change oil and filter then noise starts above 2000 RPM.

Change filter of same type and noise continues.

My questions are:

What type of oil(brand and weight) and filter was in the engine for the last change?

Have you stayed with a consistent oil and filter or do you change up on occasion? Nothing wrong with that.

What weight oil is in it now? Can you check the jug you used to be sure?

Couple of thoughts:

Not saying the exhaust isn't the culprit, but seems too coincidental. In my experience, if there's an exhaust leak, if small, it tends to quiet down slightly when hot.

Does the pitch of the noise change when adding throttle with little to no rise in RPM? Exhaust leaks tend to change pitch when adding a load to the engine, not all the time, but when near the manifold.

Have you verified the oil level

If this is not happening at idle, I'm thinking that a lifter might possibly be starving for oil. Lifters need oil to pump up but you sound like it's only one possible lifter, which could be the case.

If the DOD lifter is faulty, which could also be the issue, I would think it would tick all the time, not sure.

My question for the ones who know the DOD system, does the PCM keep the DOD inactive until a certain temp?

I like fram filters, but I only use the XG synthetic filters, otherwise a WIX or the OE AC Delco.

I personally would change the filter to a Fram XG or the AC Delco just to hopefully eliminate a flow issue, but I cannot imagine two new filters wouldn't have eliminated that possibility, anything can happen.

More likely, the metal you found on the drain plug could be remnants of something else that has restricted flow to a lifter and when you are at or near 2000 RPM there may not be enough oil flow to keep up.

 

[Mooseman]

Btw, how is the oil pressure? Being a V8, the cluster's gauge is real.

AFAIK, the 4.8 doesn't have DOD.

 

[ggmurray]

Hey everyone I just saw this and on my way down to double check closely, also to double check oil and filter. Standby.....I have to ask I spent this morning recording the sound and I have a pretty good recording but question is can I post the video?

 

[ggmurray]

Thanks mooseman I knew you’d see my posts sooner or later! You helped me do much with the Rainier!

 

[Mooseman]

You can't post audio or video directly. You have to upload to YouTube or a shared drive and post the link.

 

[gmcman]

Deleted, Sorry Mooseman, I thought the 4.8 had the AFM option.

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman thanks I will figure out how to share it on YouTube. Ok I feel like an idiot idk how I didn’t see this first thing this morning when I ran it cold! I guess I didn’t have enough coffee yet or something!

 

[ggmurray]

Yes You guys NAILED it!!! Thumbs up to you guys!

 

[ggmurray]

Here are the answers to the questions

 

[ggmurray]

Sorry upside down!

 

[ggmurray]

Oil and filter
Fran PH10060 it’s what I’ve always used...
5W30 as always

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman FYI I have seen the oil pressure say 50 in the morning and of course it fluctuates depending on speed and what not.....it will drop down in the 30s though

 

[Mooseman]

With your finding the exhaust leak, the oil pressure is a moot point however, you gotta give up those cheap Fram filters unless you like having cardboard in there. The ONLY one that they make without cardboard is their Ultra Synthetic which is actually pretty good. Just search for Fram on Youtube and you'll see.

 

[ggmurray]

Mooseman I will give them up! On 3 occasions between the rainier and Silverado I have had issues and had to change them out. Funny thing though when I cut them open I could never find out why they stopped up. Curious what’s your go to filter?

 

[ggmurray]

Little side note: sometimes I’ll buy 2 and put one on the shelf in the shop so I’ll have an extra one on hand. I wonder if sitting on the shelf in the heat will cause them foul out... just a thought..

 

[Mooseman]

I actually use their Ultra Synth when I can find them on sale. If looking for something lower end, Wix is solid. Napa Gold is made by Wix.

I doubt that sitting on a shelf does something to them except maybe the glue they use on the cardboard dries out?

Friends don't let friends use Fram!

 

[ggmurray]

Thanks friend!! Wix or Napa gold for me! I’m working on the YouTube now, I think it might be worth doing it sounds pretty good and I’m pretty sure you can make out the ticking! Heck it might help someone else!

 

[gmcman]

Glad it's nothing internal, crazy it showed up right after the oil change.

 

[ggmurray]

I agree! Going to get started tomorrow soaking the bolts down now!

 

[ggmurray]

Update picking up the hardware after work this afternoon.

 

[TollKeeper]

I use the Mobil 1 oil filters. Never heard anything bad about them. I can usually get them, and a jug of Mobil 1 oil in a oil change special from Advance Auto for right at $30.

Little late to the thread, was going to suggest the Exhaust Manifolds too. but looks like you got it sorted out.

 

[ggmurray]

This is the new gasket and manifold bolts, I wonder though if I should order some ARP bolts...

 

[Reprise]

Congrats for finding the issue!

Re: ARP bolts - they're hella spendy! And you'll need a 12 pt socket for them. Also, I've seen people mention that the bolt heads rust (and if the bolt heads can rust, then... )

I have those same Dorman bolts on my Sierra (had to get them b/c the idiot who had the truck before me replaced the bolts, but with the wrong size / thread pitch - so they didn't fit in my new heads). Anyway, I just put them in, so it'll be awhile before we see how they hold up.

Also, when you replace the gaskets, and start the truck up for the first time afterward, don't be surprised if you see smoke coming from both sides. I think there's a coating on those that burns off. After about 10min, it'll dissipate. I'm pretty sure those gaskets are the same ones I used, as well.

 

[mrrsm]

In spite of having to stand on my head to read the numbers of the Dorman Bolt Kit you photographed and posted above... according to their Web Page (see Screen Print...Right Side UP) ...Those Bolts will be more than adequate for this task.

The only thing to remember is that they should all be re-tightened to 15 Foot Pounds and NO MORE every few weeks until their Thermal Cycling stabilizes.

Remember... your Engine has an Aluminum Head... Don't Freelance with the Ratchet and Socket trying to get things TOO tight. It's the Gasket that needs gradual "squashing" over time... and the patience necessary to ensure that it eventually does:

 

[Reprise]

The only thing to remember is that they should all be re-tightened to 15 Foot Pounds and NO MORE every few weeks until their Thermal Cycling stabilizes.

Remember... your Engine has an Aluminum Head... Don't Freelance with the Ratchet and Socket trying to get things TOO tight. It's the Gasket that needs gradual "squashing" over time... and the patience necessary to ensure that it eventually does:

Crap... I had to take the one side off of mine a couple of times, and guessed the final torque at '18 ft-lb' when I reattached it the last time
(I looked it up afterward and thought 'what's 3 ft-lbs ?' Now I know)

 

[ggmurray]

Sorry MRRSM! Your absolutely right another upside down pic! Well I have another update, after inspecting the passages side closely to make sure everything was ok on that side I discovered the very back bolt head next to the firewall was missing. Also looking at the drivers side with a mirror I was able to determine that stud had sheered off up in the head say a thread or too, looks like I’ll have to try the welding trick and build up the stud to get it out. I can’t get a hood look at the stud on the passages side. More to come.

 

[Reprise]

@ggmurray - Dorman (and others) make 'repair' kits for broken LS manifold bolts. They're really clamps that hold down the manifold and seal up the leak, while leaving the bolt where it is. I'd try that before extracting the broken bolt -- much less of a headache.

If you can't find what I'm mentioning, let us know. I'm just too much in a hurry right now to look it up & post a link / pic. But wanted to let you know before you committed to extracting the bolt.

 

[ggmurray]

Reprise saw several of these type repair kits, pretty sure this is what you were suggesting.

 

[mrrsm]

You might want to look over THESE Stainless Steel "Shorty" Headers for just over $100.00 as they are a Direct Bolt-Up Design, with COMPLETE 360 Degree Welds and consider the opportunity of eliminating the Rust and get a bit of *Bling* for your 4.8L Engine, all in the Same Go:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QJU3G38/?tag=gmtnation-20

 

[Mooseman]

Nice find! These are cheap (in price). They're even available on Amazon.ca for $130 moose bucks. Better than manifolds.

DNA Motoring HDS-GY99 Stainless Steel Exhaust Header Manifold, Headers - Amazon Canada

DNA Motoring HDS-GY99 Stainless Steel Exhaust Header Manifold in Headers.

www.amazon.ca

 

[mrrsm]

I wasn't just making the recommendation for considering getting these because of the Low Price. They are made out of the same 304L Stainless Steel that Elon Musk has chosen for the creation of his Starship Spacecraft. I OWN these Headers and can testify to their Low Cost AND High Quality:

I took these images of my DNA Shorty Headers specific for the 99-02 Silverados with the 4.8L and 5.3L Engines that require the externally mounted EGR Valve:

DNA S/S SHORTY HEADERS

This Album contains Images of the DNA Model# HDS-CC99-SHORTY Stainless Steel Exhaust Header Kit for the 2000 Chevrolet Silverado Standard Cab, Long Bed Pick Up Truck with the 5.3L LS Engine.

www.flickr.com

...and here are the other images of my OBX Full Length Performance Headers for the 99-02 Silverados with the 4.8L and 5.3L Engines, also fitted for the externally mounted EGR Valve:

OBX STAINLESS STEEL LONG TUBE HEADERS

These Images Display the New Set of OBX Stainless Steel Headers WITH High Flow CATS that I'm installing on, in and under my 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 with a 5.3L V-8 Engine. The Mods include a BBK 85 MM Mechanical Throttle Body, a Texas Speed & Performance 212/218 .550/.550 LSA 14 Camshaft...

www.flickr.com